Reimagining content creation w/ Brooke Monaghan and Audrey Holst
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Welcome to Make Your Business Work for You! In this first episode, join your host Brooke Monaghan for a candid conversation with her business friend Audrey Holst. They'll discuss the origin of the show, how they are currently thinking about content creation, and why it is time to create space for more nuance and complexity in the business development space.
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Here’s what you’ll hear about in this episode…
2:46 - Wanting a human approach to demystify the concept of a simple, easy business and know you’re not alone
6:01 - The goals of this podcast and what you’ll hear
12:47 - Creating content because it’s what you’re “supposed to do” and wondering why
17:23 - Reorienting your focus to center what you actually want
22:04 - What you’re told about how you “should” create content vs. creating what you want to create in the first place
27:09 - Looking for how-to advice when you want to know exactly what to do in your business vs. trusting yourself and your creative problem-solving
37:29 - Creating something better and wanting to make an impact while having creative control and freedom. Assessing your risk tolerances and what you’re willing to do.
43:21 - Questioning your own ideas vs. accepting the ideas that are the “right” way to do things
Do you have a question you’d like to hear addressed on a future episode?
As part of Fruition Growth Network, you can submit your questions related to being a human running a small, lifestyle business and have them answered by one of our expert contributors. You can expect nuanced conversation and expert guidance just for you, and you don’t even need to wait for new episodes to drop. As soon as we record your response you will get access to the full video interview. Join Fruition Growth Network here!
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Transcript
Audrey Holst 00:00
And just kind of rolling with the punches Before we even came on, I was dealing with electronic issues, because this week my cat threw up into my modem and fried it.
[upbeat electronic beat]
Brooke Monaghan 00:16
[upbeat electronic beat]
Hi everybody, welcome to the first episode of Make your Business Work For you. If you do not know who I am already which I'm assuming if you're listening to this, at least at the time of this podcast launching you probably know a bit about me. My name is Brooke Monaghan. I am the host and the creator of this podcast, and for the past four years I have been a business and leadership coach and in that time I have witnessed many of the issues that small business owners, especially lifestyle business owners, people who are doing this work because they wanna have some flexibility in their life do meaningful work and just like support the lifestyle that they want, but are not looking to create some massive company. And those four years of working with people in that position have taught me so much about the most common obstacles that people are bumping up against, but also what really needs to be better. And so I have kind of pivoted my work and I am working on creating a new platform called Fruition Growth Network, and I wanna tell you a little bit about it only because I reference it a few times in these first few episodes and I want you to know what I'm talking about. So Fruition Growth Network is an online community learning and networking platform that I'm creating, but it's also a place where I am connecting small business owners with other small business owners who can support them. So through the course of this podcast, you're gonna hear me talking to different small business owners who are experts in certain areas or certain industries, and they're gonna be coming in and offering their guidance to you in an accessible format. We are also gonna have workshops and all kinds of other helpful resources available in the Fruition Growth Network community, and that is going to be opening in October. So if you wanna learn more about that, go to joinfruition.com. And this show is really a part of this platform, and here's why. One of the biggest things that I see derail small business owners is that, because of this best practice in content creation or in being an online service provider because one of the best practices is to be hyper specific and focused we are losing a lot of context and we are losing a lot of nuance.
02:46
The problem is that there is a bunch of shit that does not get talked about, and I want my niche, if you will, to be context and nuance, which makes no sense and feels so messy, and yet I am witnessing the need for it day in and day out, and so we're giving it a shot. And here is why. We need to talk about things in a more human way and demystify this concept of simple, easy business that would be true for you, too, if only you could figure out how to do it right, or if only you were disciplined enough or a good enough student. Because the reality is that there is a lot more complexity going on behind the scenes for people. There is a lot more mess, there are lots of competing priorities for different people. Different people come from different circumstances, different people want different things, and the result of that is that actually, despite the fact that we are learning from an industry that's telling us that running a business is really simple if you just do it right, I have yet to witness that, in all of the people that I've worked with and also in my own business.
03:57
So I want us to be able to see the truth, so that we can first of all, know that we're not alone and then also kind of settle in a little bit. Settle in a little bit to the reality, so that we can stop trying to chase that simple, easy, the money is just easily flowing because you have finally done it right destination. And I'm not saying that you can't allow things to be simpler for yourself or easier for yourself. I actually think that you can. But I think that the way of doing that is not what we have been told. It is not to chase a certain external strategy and then discipline yourself into doing it the right way in hopes that things come together. So that's gonna make more sense as we go through these few episodes. But the point is, if you're feeling like everyone has it figured out except for you, I promise you that you're not alone, and my hope is that through the conversations that we have in this show, you're going to first of all see that and also get some helpful guidance that brings in some more context, some more nuance and brings a more human approach, understanding that you are not just your business. Now, the other thing is that I want to have a place where we can offer guidance and support in a really accessible format. Some of us can afford to work with a coach or work with somebody a consultant or belong to a mastermind where we can go and get answers to our questions. Some of us cannot do that. This is a place where you can actually send us questions, scenarios, dilemmas, and I will pull from my network of people and find people who are best suited to give some guidance on that and we will record an episode on it. So take us up on that. Go to joinfruition.com, click on ask the pros, submit your questions.
06:01
Now, in these first three episodes of the show, you're going to hear three very different styles of episodes. That's intentional, because there's going to be different styles of episodes on this show. This first conversation is a candid talk with my dear friend, Audrey Holst. We had no plan and, by the way, highly recommend you take advantage and write in questions for Audrey. Audrey works on recovering from perfectionism and managing stress. The other two episodes that you're gonna hear one of them is a Q and A style episode, so you will -- That one's gonna be much more straightforward.
06:34
Questions are gonna come up. We're gonna answer them. Those episodes are going to focus on a particular topic so you'll be able to see if it's something that's gonna be helpful for you or not. We're also gonna be working on getting the Q and As all up on YouTube in video format and we will also be archiving all of them on the joinfruition.com website so that you can go and search questions by topic. We'll have much more of a bank of those as time goes by and get expert guidance on different questions that people in the community have asked. And if there isn't anything there, then you can join the community and ask your question. And people who are part of the community have the benefit of being able to, first of all, get a guaranteed response to your questions and also see the full video conversation when it is recorded, rather than having to wait for it to come up on a future podcast episode.
07:23
The third episode that dropped today and, if you're listening to this later, I'm talking about these first three because I'm dropping three episodes for your binging pleasure today, but there will be more coming weekly after this. The third is a conversation with somebody who I have so much respect for, Tanya Geisler, a person whose teaching has honestly changed the way that I approach my work. We're gonna be talking about imposter complex and feeling like everybody has it figured out except for you, so I hope that you enjoy. I can't wait to hear what you think. Please, please, leave me a rating and a review on Apple podcasts if you enjoy
07:56
the show, it makes a huge difference and head to joinfruition.com, get on our email list, follow us over on Instagram at joinfruition so that you know when doors are opening. We are going to be welcoming people in October and kicking things off with some great events, and I cannot wait to see you there. . Yeah, you've become one of my go-to. I'm just gonna vox Audrey about this and see what Audrey thinks.
Audrey Holst 08:29
[laughs], which I love, and I'm like I'm just gonna vox Brooke about this and then it's gonna take some weird left turn and it's gonna be super nourishing for everybody involved.
Brooke Monaghan 08:47
I've been podcasting for a long time and I've always been very frustrated by like the kind of content that is like we're gonna tell you exactly how to do a thing and then act like it's easy. Just gonna act like it's real simple. All you have to do is this and ignoring all of the other things that are going on. For most people who run businesses. Like I don't know, having lives not fucking wanting to do the thing that you just told them is easy to do, not having the capacity to do the thing that you just told them is easy to do, for whatever reason, not having a business where that actually works for them, whatever.
09:25
And what I started thinking about was this new platform that I'm putting together, how I could create something that was a part of that and that went along with it, Because originally I was just going to change the name of my old podcast and just be like I'm just going to change the name and keep doing what I'm doing. And then I was like, oh no, that's not actually what I want to do, because what I actually want to do is I want people who are part of that community space that I'm opening to be able to ask questions and then be like I don't know the answer to that because, guess what, we don't all know all of the answers, which is another thing that I can't stand about, like some of the podcasts that I find myself listening to and realize I was doing myself, where it's like you put this pressure on yourself to think that you should know the answers to all the questions and obviously you don't, but I know so many people who know the answers.
10:14
So why not? People are looking for podcasts to be on and ways to get in front of new audiences. Why not, like, bring people together, like, this person has a question, this person has an answer. You can ask it, then I'll put it on the podcast. Everyone benefits, but it's also not just me talking just for the sake of talking, and that was kind of what sparked me putting this together. And, of course, the reason that you were even though we did talk about how you were a last minute substitution. I'm not going to lie. I'm sorry, but you were going to be for the first episode because I wanted to talk to you about your stuff. I wanted to talk to you about perfectionism. You're going to have to come back for that part.
Audrey Holst
I'll be back, yeah.
Brooke Monaghan
but one of the reasons I wanted to chat with you about it is because this is the stuff that you and I are talking about all the time. I feel like yeah, where we're like, yeah, like you're supposed to just X, Y and Z, and also like what the fuck?
Audrey Holst 11:08
Totally so. One of the things I'm curious about like for drawing things out for anybody who's listening right now, or like what are some of the themes that have been popping up for you that you're excited to talk to people about?
Brooke Monaghan 11:18
Well, see, this is the thing. Good question, because I think that what I'm realizing is I'm at a phase now where I can do things less because I'm excited about them and more because I know that they're genuinely helpful for people. Which is like a new thing for me, because I started my original podcast being like, oh, this is a thing that I want to create and that I'm really excited about. I mean, I am really excited about this, but also, like I genuinely am curious about, like what are the questions that you wish someone was actually answering? And like I probably know someone who can give you, who could have a more nuanced conversation with me about your specific situation, or who could fill in some of those details that you feel like you're not getting. And so, I mean, the theme of all of it is this like we can consume, how-to content all we want, but at the end of the day, you can't actually just know all of the things to do and then just run down the list and do them all.
Audrey Holst 12:16
Yeah, totally.
Brooke Monaghan 12:17
So, like, what do you do then, given the complexity of like real world situations where you have multiple priorities? You know. So anyways, I mean, yeah, I guess that, going into this, I'm like I'm excited to have my people here who I know are really smart and know some things like answer the questions that people actually want answers to and do a lot less talking just for the sake of fucking creating content.
Audrey Holst 12:47
Yeah, I feel like that is one of the that is, I feel like that's a theme right now in my own life and I think that's a theme that's kind of coming up in conversation is is a feeling of creating content, because it's something you're supposed to do or something that is now expected, or something that feels like a necessary part of business, and the term creating content it means so. It's such a vague overarching term and I think, with all the conversations with AI, right, like that's like a whole other story. Like what are we actually like? What is being created? What are we actually talking about? Are we, are we creating content?
13:30
I'm putting all these things in quotes because, yeah, what is creating content actually like? Is it? Is it just stuff that you feel like you got to throw out into the world because that's what we're supposed to be doing to keep ourselves in front of people? Are we creating things because it actually is like you're talking about answering a question that somebody has and is looking for an answer to something. Are we creating because we are excited about something, just like you were talking about previously?
Brooke Monaghan 13:56
So, even when you said that back to me really creating content I was like ugh, because it's become this concept that it's so interesting, because it's almost like one of those things where like, if you aim directly at creating really great content, you're not gonna.
Audrey Holst
Yes.
Brooke Monaghan
Like if you're creating content for the sake of creating content, you're actually not focusing on the thing that you should be focusing on, which is creating something beautiful, useful, helpful, whatever it is, whatever your reason for creating is, and then putting that out there. That is whatever it is that you're creating and sharing with people. That is content. But we have forgotten about that because we're so obsessed with doing it the right way.
14:39
And the other thing in this is this feels so relevant for conversations that you and I have been having about your work.
14:47
Yeah, because you just had this, like I mean, I don't know if you want to talk about it here, but like you just also had this kind of like epiphany about writing your book in a totally different way.
14:57
Yes, I'm like immediately sensing this, like through line between what I'm talking about here and and what's interesting too. And this is like so, man I'm so excited now because it's such a good indicator of the fact that, like doing this, doing what both of us are doing right now, could lead you to two completely different things. Like I'm choosing to be, like I want to create a thing because I like less, because I'm excited to do it and more because I'm witnessing people are looking for certain information, and I know people who have it, and I could bring those people together and we could demystify this whole idea that there's, like this, one simple answer that you're just missing or that everyone has it figured out except for you. For you, I think that you're also completely flipping the idea of creating content on its head, but it's taking you to a much different place, which is, like the point of why I want to be talking about all of this.
Audrey Holst 15:55
Yeah, yeah, and always full disclosure. This is my process. This does not have to be your process, but if hearing about my process is helpful, awesome. If you think it's stupid, that's cool too. So I have. I've been writing a book for several years now. I actually had a book completely written. It was in the second round of edits and the my rough draft happened right before the pandemic. My first round of edits happened like right in the midst of it and when and I stepped away from it for a while because I don't know, didn't seem like the most important thing to be doing at that time. When I came back to it and I was reading through it, I'm like this is not interesting to me. This is centering all the wrong stuff. It was centering what the things that I was, and I think this happens a lot of times to. I know that you've talked about this where we center the things we don't want.
16:53
I'm not centering the oppression or I'm centering the white supremacy or I'm centering right? I'm centering the things that I am anti, yeah, but I'm actually not bringing to the forefront the things that I want people to be highlighting, paying attention to and spending more time with Right. And if we're talking about the nervous system which is a lot of the stuff that I talk about and write about, is that's already become a challenge. Is that a lot of the folks I work with, a lot of the folks that a lot of things I talk about, we start centering the stuff we don't want. We put a lot of energy there and we start orienting towards those things.
17:23
Okay, well, if you're orienting towards all the stuff you don't want, how are you going to get to the stuff you do want? Right, it's like what's your North Star? If you're staring at a black hole over here, I'm like, gesturing at different sides of my body, you can't see me. If I'm just, you know, if I'm like staring down the black hole, how am I ever going to get to the sun? Like, I actually have to turn my head, look at the sun and start orienting that direction.
Brooke Monaghan 17:46
I think that's what creativity is, by the way, I think like, yeah, it's like no longer focusing on all of the things that are that you're against or that are wrong or that you want to fix, and focusing on creating the thing that you do. Which is super fucking risky. And scary.
Audrey Holst 18:11
Yeah. Totally. And so I started writing it again and it again started centering. I got through three quarters of the book second time around and I was like and at that point I had done some like rearranging, I had trashed a bunch of bunch of stuff I've kind of like trashed and burned and then like rewritten, sort of mashed back together this book in several different ways.
18:32
And again I was like, why am I talking about this? There's a lot of talk about work, there's a lot of talk about business and, to be honest, that's not the thing, that's not the conversation I want to have. Like these things are part of people's lives and they're part of they're big parts of people's lives, but that's, that's not. Again, it's not what I want to center. I don't want to be centering business or work. I don't think it's. The important thing is to center. So here we go, slash and burn. Here it goes again and I just started thinking about, like what is the book that I want to make? Like what's the experience I want to have
19:06
making this book? And I think that's because that's a part of the process right is like being able to enjoy the process, and there's plenty of people who write books because they want to, you know they have a particular objective for it. Right, it's marketing or it's whatever. But I don't. That's not my, that's not my objective. Like originally it was kind of like that, but at this point I'm like that's not really what I care about.
19:29
And I actually had a really interesting conversation with a woman by the name of Elizabeth Watkins Price and she is, she just wrote a book and was telling me about her process and she was getting super jazzed. It's really fun to talk to like other writers who get it like it's very, very exciting. And she was talking about having done something similar where she was like I wanted to talk about it, like I wanted to write, I wanted to like become the person to write the book that I wanted to write and it was like a lot of memoir. But like the memoir was so vulnerable and raw that it ended up being like wrapped in a lot of my practices, which actually felt like a really compassionate thing to do, and like even me talking about it right now and and like she can talk about it obviously way more, way better than I just did, but it like gave me chills.
20:17
Like that's the process. Yes, like you go through the journey, like the writing itself does something to you and brings you to a place, and then you figure out how to wrap that in something that like does something for you and then it does something for somebody else and like that's the whole thing. It's like if you're not creating for yourself or for somebody else or in relationship, it's just like what are we doing? Are we really just like throwing stuff against a wall because we've been told to throw something against the wall? So that's the very not linear process.
20:50
So that's where I am now, and I've got a. I've got a bunch of sticky notes, I've got all sorts of stuff up and one of the one of the parts of the book that one of the sticky notes is actually about what we've been talking to a little bit here is like concept versus reality, like us relating to a concept versus like relating to what's here. Yeah, there's something about relating to like what's here versus just like this right, this concept of creating content. When I say creating content, I have no relationship to that term.
Brooke Monaghan
The cat has joined the conversation. I will. Yeah, when
Audrey Holst
Everybody go into YouTube and the cat hashasentered the chat.
Brooke Monaghan 21:29
Yeah, what's the. What's the cat's name? I forget. I feel terrible. What's the name?
Audrey Holst
Sweet Pea
Brooke Monaghan
Sweet Pea, of course, duh. I just thought Sweet Pea was about to like turn their little head and like talk into the microphone, just like perfect.
Audrey Holst 21:41
It may happen.
Brooke Monaghan 21:44
Yeah, it's like this whole like okay, well, if we're not doing something that like does something for us or does something for other people, we're not creating a thing that's like for you know, for us, or in that process, then what are we doing? It's like what we're doing is we're trying to figure out how to do the thing that has been promised to deliver all of the money.
22:04
I think is it's like there's this promise that if you do all of the stuff the right way and you just create content in this way and whatever, then it's going to work, and work usually means make money.
22:17
But what I see is that like people are aiming for that when that's not actually the reason why they're even here.
22:27
Like not to say that we don't want to make money of course we do, but really like you could just go and get a job if that's what you wanted to do and sometimes people decide to do that and that's great and also like, if that doesn't feel satisfying to you, then the reason that doesn't feel satisfying to you is because actually you're here for a different reason and part of what I'm, like you know, constantly wrestling I feel like constantly wrestling with.
22:59
I feel like is this like making, just making money is actually not that hard of a problem to solve. I mean, it is for some people, of course, and in certain circumstances, obviously, but what's the hard part problem to solve is figuring out how to do what you actually want to do, create the thing that you actually want to create, fit that in with what you want your life to look like and figure out how to make it, make you money, which is a much different thing from just going down the fucking checklist of all the shit that you're supposed to do, and I feel like no one's giving themselves enough credit for that.
Audrey Holst 23:43
Like, totally yeah. And so, like the metaphor that just popped into my mind, it's like if you were to write a checklist on how to grow a plant. Right, it's like you get the dirt, you plant the seeds, you water the seeds, you you know, you give it sunlight, whatever. But here's the thing Weather happens right. Weather is unpredictable. You may get the right weather, you may get the wrong weather. You don't really know. Are you growing it inside or you're growing it outside? Like, are there animals that may come and eat those? Right, there are. It's like there are so many circumstances and and factors that play into a process that, like none of these checklists, happen in a vacuum.
Brooke Monaghan 24:27
Right. Exactly, exactly. Business doesn't happen in a vacuum. Business happens because people run businesses and human beings turns out are kind of fucking complex.
Audrey Holst 24:42
Living in a kind of complex world and a little bit, just a little bit.
Brooke Monaghan 24:47
So I'm just like endlessly fascinated by and I mean, it makes sense, right, because we're all drawn to this idea of things just being simple.
24:56
So, and this is the other thing, too, that I always try to like remind myself of is like, rather than just being angry about the kinds of conversations that are out there, the kinds of content that is out there, the kinds of the ways that we're being told to approach a certain thing, remembering that the reason that that exists is because, on the other side of things, we're all out here looking for the easy answer.
25:15
Like we're all out here looking for the simple just give me the answer, just get to the point, kind of thing, and so that it, you know, it's a, it's a tricky thing, yeah, but I think that part of what I'm kind of craving, I guess, is almost this, like this exposing like what is true and real here, which is that there's such an illusion of like there's people who know how to do things and who have everything figured out and everything, and for those people, things are just simple and easy and what, and they know how to do the right things, and you are somehow broken, flawed, fucked up because, despite the fact that you're consuming all of the stuff that those people are putting out there, it's not working for you, but it's working for everybody else. And I'm just like but is it, or is it just like but is it?
Audrey Holst 26:21
That's the thing, right? I think that, and I think the thing is, like, what we need to say is some people are making money, some people are not making money. Some people are putting up the front that they're making money, but they're not making money. Some people have jobs, some people don't have jobs, some people have spouses or significant others, some people have other sources of income. Right, like there are so many things happening in the background and it is and nobody talks about those things which is like both fine, but then also very difficult for people who are trying to understand. Like, because that's one of the things we do as humans, right, as we look around at each other and say, like am I where I'm supposed to be? Am I in the right group of people? Like, am I doing the right things? Like, am I in the right stage? Like, what's going on? And because there are a lot of these conversations that are not happening, we don't know.
Brooke Monaghan 27:09
Like we just don't know. Yeah, yeah, and I was having a conversation with somebody this morning. I asked this group, what's something that you want to learn more about? And somebody said I just want to know what to do. Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, first of all, me too. All of us.
Audrey Holst 27:35
Same.
Brooke Monaghan 27:36
This is what we're all looking for, and also, what that really is is a call for self-trust, because the idea that there is a what to do is the whole fucking thing. And like what I and I feel like people might be listening to this and be like, okay, great, except, like you know, just trusting myself isn't going to like get me out of this situation. Well, actually I think it would. I actually think that it would, because, like the, it's like when you are looking for people to tell you how to do the thing, all the time and when, and especially when you're looking to this kind of content that we're talking about. This whole conversation has ended up centering around this sort of content but
Audrey Holst
It's like how to? How to do content.
Brooke Monaghan
That kind of yeah which, by the way, the next episode of this podcast is going to be very Q&A and you're just getting answers. So I mean, you know, but it's going to be to like specific questions, and I hope that there's some nuance in there that allows you to take what's helpful and leave what isn't. but it's like look, constantly looking for the give me the answer. Constantly looking for the right person who's going to finally give you the thing that's going to help you move the needle. Constantly looking for the missing piece of information is kind of just distracting you from what you are actually here to create, or your own unique ideas or your own perspective on a thing, or how you could do things differently. And I think that we are also in a kind of like it's really frustrating where we're at right now because it's yeah, I think I'm talking to I am talking to a lot of people who are saying things that used to work aren't working the way that they used to anymore. Yes, which is really really frustrating. And also that means you get to do whatever the fuck you want, because if the right way isn't working anyways, then maybe change it up and start running a fucking experiment and try something else. Because, like, I mean, what do you have to lose? Right, you know? And that's where the actual creativity comes in and that's where you can actually like approach things differently and that's where you actually have the space to say, okay, this is what I want this to look like, or this is what I want to create for other people, or the change that I want to make, or the impact that I want to have, or the thing that I want to set straight I'm going to approach this from a place of self trust and creativity, that I can bring that to life, and also approach the money making piece from a place of creativity, rather than just trying to follow the rules because, I mean, I don't know.
30:13
I just I have learned this lesson over and over again. Literally every single time that I ever find something where I'm like, aha, this is it, this is going to be the thing that is finally going to change everything and finally, like the money is going to start flowing in and everything's going to be easy, I'm like oh right, and yet again, it's actually more complicated than that. Great. I actually have to be more creative than that. I actually have to make it work for my unique circumstances. I actually have to, like tap into what I think, or put my own spin on the thing, or take one part of it that works and like to completely forget all the rest of it, because the rest of it is distracting me like, and I just so badly want to like stop this pattern that I see so many people get sucked into, where you're just on the search for that thing that's going to, like you know, finally make it all make sense.
Audrey Holst 31:11
I've seen the other side, right like I've worked with folks who have really successful businesses, like financially successful, and like they've hit, they've checked off all the things right, and so they've checked all things and I don't you know for, for disclosure, people don't know like I don't, I'm not a business coach, right like I do a lot of coaching around perfectionism and stress and anxiety and that
Brooke Monaghan
Turns out lots of us business owners struggle with those things.
Audrey Holst
Turns out. You know that there's a lot of that going on in this world.
Brooke Monaghan 31:42
Wait, entrepreneurs need your help. I don't know why they would ever need that.
Audrey Holst 31:49
So, like I've, I've seen, right, I work with a lot of the people who are because, you know, also spoiler alert people often don't hire me until they've got the funds to be like, okay, like I actually feel like I can now hire the person that can help me and that, like you know, stress emotional sort of nervous system side, which is totally fair. Right, you're trying to make wise investments when you're getting things going. But, yeah, I end up with the people who are and I don't just work with entrepreneurs, like I'm also working with people with with regular jobs but a lot of the people who've checked all the checkboxes right, they've got the stable income, they've got the business that's working, they do know what levers to pull and they're not and guess what like nothing magically happened. It's not like all of those things happen and all of a sudden they're like, yay, now I can kick back and relax. No, because they have no idea how to not do anything other than just like sprint on the hamster wheel as fast as possible.
Brooke Monaghan 32:44
Yep. And, by the way, for everybody who's looking at those people from the outside thinking, oh my gosh, those people just have it all together. They figured it out, they just have it on autopilot. Everything's probably running like a well oiled machine over there. All they have to do is just wake up and just stroll into their probably beautiful office and, just you know, like breeze through their day. I think that both of us can confirm that that is not what's going on.
Audrey Holst 33:15
It's not what's going on. It's not what's going on, unless people have really done some like deep inquiry and they're certain, and they've been like confronting that concept, like they're throughout the entire, the entire build, and I think that that's the that's kind of the rub is that there is not a finish line. You're not going to get to a point where, all of a sudden, you're like the heavens open up and the angels come down and all the money flows and you're like I'm done now and I feel great, like there's a lot more. There just continues to be complexity and things that happen and things that are interesting, and I guess it, and if you're not, I guess the question, I guess that what I want to say is if, like, if that's the vision you have, then the reality is going to be like a harsh slap in the face.
Brooke Monaghan 34:01
Yeah, and I think that a lot of people are continuing to be like Wait, this is my reality, so that means there's something wrong with me, Or this is my reality, and so that means that I'm doing something wrong, or this is my reality, and so I must not be as capable as I thought I was Right. Instead of this is your reality. These are the things that you know that you want to be different. Is it possible to like have a little bit of acceptance of what reality is right now? Give yourself a little bit of those things that you want to be different, actually live your fucking life and like know, that, whatever it is, like you're going to have to keep showing up to this and it is going to be work and it is going to be challenging. And so how can you like set it up in a way where you can like at least show up to it day in and day out, in a way that doesn't feel like a total, just like you're getting the shit beat out of you every day? And I think that, like we have to, we have to recognize that so much of the industry that you know you're not a business coach but, surprise, you're on a business podcast, so you're in the business development industry with me right now. So much of this industry thrives on the blue sky promises. It thrives on the it runs because of the fact that people are convinced that they're going to hit some sort of finish line. Right, yep, and it's re, it's reinforced at the top of every sales page that you see. Yep, like what if things get to be like this and you finally get to blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, and I'll be honest with you, as I was thinking about being even more explicit, about breaking that down, I was thinking well, okay then where does that leave people? And am I doing? Am I being dumb by being like, actually, like, that's not because where does that leave me? Do I have something to offer?
36:01
If I'm not hooking people on some kind of blue sky, like promise of, like everything gets to be different and ultimately, it's like what I kind of come back around to is, like I know for a fact that if I'm, if I'm witnessing that and I can see it so clearly any fear that I have the position that it would put me in to no longer participate in it, if I can manage to set that aside and just focus on creating something better, I'm going to be fucking fine. I'm gonna be fine, and the reason I know that I'm going to be fine is because we so desperately need something better. There's just no way that, if I really focus my energy on creating something that approaches things differently and gives people a different way of looking at things, I just can't, I'm not willing to accept that that would somehow fuck me over in any way, because I look around and I see the people who need it and I'm like I mean, this is what this is like, what this is my whole fucking job. My whole job is to witness what people need and try to create a solution for it. And so, anyways, all of this to say it's like I think that this kind of brings us back around to where we started this conversation, which is like we have all of these things that are pulling us back to like, no, do do things this way, don't trust yourself in your own creativity, don't have the real conversation.
37:27
Don't write something just to write it.
37:29
Don't write something just to connect with people or offer a different perspective. Write a thing because it's marketing. Do a thing because it's in an industry where you can make money. Do a thing because it's smart and strategic and whatever for your business and that, ultimately, I think that we're just at this point right now where look around and look at all of the things that you're seeing around you and ask yourself how helpful it feels like it is to you and ask yourself if you want to be one of those people or if you want to be the person who's daring to do things a bit differently and creating to actually create something better and more beautiful and whatever. And like I don't know where that leaves us, like I don't know I can't make a guarantee that that money is going to flow from that because, to be honest, that's some straight fucking bullshit too. That's like the whole what like the prosperity gospel of like fucking money goes to people who are like doing things the right way and are good people and whatever.
Audrey Holst 38:27
If you really want to make a perfectionist totally lose their mind, just go down that rabbit hole.
Brooke Monaghan 38:32
Right. So we can't make those guarantees, but what I can tell you is that I don't know at least the thing that you said you wanted to do when you decided to do the work that you chose to do like, which I'm assuming was do something meaningful and something that matters to you and feel like you're having an impact on people and actually enjoy your work and have some sense of creative control and freedom. You could have that, and I mean, if the things that you're trying that are supposedly going to make you money are not making you money anyway, I don't know. Maybe we give it a shot, like that's my whole thing is. I'm like I'm not guaranteeing you that any of the stuff is going to work, but I can tell you that if you're not willing to even try it, you're going to have a damn hard time of, like you know, getting where you want to go.
Audrey Holst 39:20
Yeah, and I think it's the thing that keeps coming up for me around. This conversation is just just like getting real with what your risk tolerance is. Yes, because I and I think that that's a real, that is such a. That's just like such a real conversation right there. When I say risk tolerance, that covers a lot of bases Like what is your financial risk tolerance right? Because people are going to have all sorts of different numbers. They're going to have all sorts of different histories. Again, they're going to have all sorts of different income streams, or maybe they don't have all sorts of income streams. Maybe they have savings, maybe they don't have savings, maybe they have, you know, investors, maybe they don't. There's that's going to look very different.
40:03
What are people is like emotional risk tolerances because, listen, this is not this. This shit is not easy, especially if you're in the public eye. Depending also, depending on what you're interested in creating, what you're interested in saying, how um fired up, that's going to get people right. That can create a certain amount of, you know, social risk perhaps for people. These are all things that are real right. They're, all sorts of things that are real.
40:33
You know, when there's that kind of conversations around like taking up space and being loud and all of that sort of stuff, yes, and they, everything still comes with a consequence, like I think that that's the piece that I want to be really explicit about, because there is a lot of blue sky and there is a lot of, you know, sort of positive psychology, but I'm like, okay, and these again, are concepts and we also live in like a reality and there is like there there are consequences to our actions.
41:03
Right, there are consequences to our actions, and so not everybody is going to receive us in a in a wonderful way and some people receive us poorly, and that's going to be like, what is people's tolerances for that sort of thing? Because I think that's like, I think that's totally real, I think it's worth worth thinking about that, and people's willingness to be brave and try stuff out and be experimental and like stick their toes in the water and check things out and see how it goes. Like that's how change gets created too, where new ideas come about. Like nothing new ever got created, nothing, nothing ever got shifted, because people were like --
Brooke Monaghan 41:37
What's the way you're supposed to do this again? Let me follow the instructions. You know on that same point of risk tolerance, one of the things that I think about all the time is like am I willing to?
41:51
There are certain things that I have considered doing or trying or have done in the past because of the fact that there's a promise attached to it that, like this is what everyone says you have to do, this is what everyone says works works, and so you know what being being in business means you have to make money. That's the definition of being in business, so I'm willing to do it, and what I started asking myself more and more is like am I willing to take the risk of that not working because it's going to suck. And sometimes the answer is yes, I am, but I think that we, like I think I've had to get myself more used to rather than going into, because what I would do before is I would ask myself that question if it was my idea. So I want to try this. Well, am I really willing to risk that potentially not working because it might not work? But then a "tried" quote, unquote best practice you know would be presented to me and I would never ask myself that question.
Brooke Monaghan 42:53
I would just think, okay, I have to do that because that's the thing that works.
Audrey Holst
Ohhh, interesting.
Brooke Monaghan 42:59
And if it doesn't work, it just means that I'm not doing it enough. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it right or whatever right, but I never was asking myself, and actually there's a risk of that not working too, and am I willing to try that if it potentially isn't going to work? I would only ask myself that with my ideas.
Audrey Holst 43:14
Am I willing to risk it? Am I willing to put my right? All of those questions. Yeah, totally.
Brooke Monaghan 43:21
Yeah, and so it's just interesting to now notice, like, where I perceive all of the risk is, and like I perceive other people's ideas as a sure thing. And I perceive my ideas as risky. And it's not true. How many times do I need to have that proven to me? How many fucking times does it need to become just so obvious, through real, real world experience, that that is not how the world works, it is not how this works.
Audrey Holst
Yes.
Brooke Monaghan
And yet here I am convincing myself that every idea that I have as a risk and every idea that everybody else has is just a sure thing, that if only I was just a good enough fucking student that I could just do it right and just be disciplined enough.
Audrey Holst 44:04
And that's the, that's the thing. I'm with you in that camp, I'm totally with you in that camp is that if I'm a good enough student of whatever philosophy or whatever practice, then it's going to work. Right, because obviously everybody else seems to be doing it just fine. It seems to be working for them. But like if I come up with something then it's brand new and it's never been tested and like it's risky and all. Yeah, I mean that's again. I think we're talking about that discernment.
Brooke Monaghan
Yeah, right.
Audrey Holst
Is figuring out, is maybe putting the question mark right above everything.
Brooke Monaghan 44:41
Yeah, on that note of the you know everybody else's whatever. I just thought it would be, you know, helpful to throw out there in case anyone doesn't know this. Most businesses lose money. I don't know if anyone's aware of that, you know, because I feel like we have this right.
Audrey Holst 44:58
The destination business is making money, but businesses lose a lot of it.
Brooke Monaghan 45:02
Yes, like if you're not losing money, if you are not pouring money in and actually losing money, you are actually performing better than a lot of very large businesses out there. I like not sure if you're aware, you know, and I don't think that we were not, because we're not told that, like, the image that we have is that, like, everyone has figured out how to do it except for us, and it's just not true. It's like I think it's like I think it's around 60% of businesses are not making money. I was listening to the podcast what's it called the Dropout, which was the podcast about Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Oh, yes, and then they did a series while she was on trial.
Audrey Holst 45:56
Yeah.
Brooke Monaghan 45:56
For people who are listening, who are not familiar with the story, which you probably are familiar with the story, Elizabeth Holmes was a CEO of a very large medical technology company that basically the entire thing was just smoke and mirrors and she was just conning people into giving her huge amounts of money for investments and couldn't do any of the things that she said this business could do. And I was listening to it and I was just thinking about the hundreds of millions of dollars that this woman got these people to give her. This company was operating for a decade and I'm listening to it and I'm like you know what's cool? My business makes more money than Theranos ever made. That's cool.
46:43
But this is the thing that I don't think we realize, or we don't. We think about people. We put other people on this kind of like. We think about their story is totally different, where it's like these huge companies that are legit and whatever, and we don't know how to do that and actually like I don't understand that really the idea that everyone has it figured out except for you is not only bullshit, but like you can be an operational business that is a multi-million dollar business and actually be losing money, and so where does that leave us then? Because, like, if the goal is no longer to have the six-figure business, or have the seven-figure business or the whatever, then what the fuck is the goal? Okay, then how about we come back?
Audrey Holst 47:32
to that. Yeah, yeah, let's back it up about 50 million steps.
Brooke Monaghan 47:36
It just blows my mind because I'm like, wow, we're so confused.
Audrey Holst 47:40
Yeah, and why wouldn't we be Exactly?
Brooke Monaghan 47:43
We're confused because of the kinds of conversations that are being had in, you know, and, unfortunately, in the places where we're going to look for help, where we're going to seek some sort of help me, help me see that I'm not as alone, give me some kind of answer to move me forward and I just feel like in a lot of those places where we're looking for that, we're getting something that's actually sucking us further into this spiral and distracting us more from what we actually want to create. And for most business owners most business owners want to have a good fucking time. That's what I've realized.
48:20
Most business owners decided to go into business for themselves because they wanted to have a flexible fucking schedule. That's what most people decided wanted when they decided to go into business for themselves. They wanted, like, to be able to choose when they work, to have some sort of like creative control over their work, to do something meaningful, maybe express their creativity. And I just am like, okay, let's come back to that and the reality of that, because you take a few steps in to figure out how to make it happen. And the next thing, you know, it's like so many of us have lost sight of all the reasons why we even came here and are now sucked into this machine of like this is how you do business. That recreates all the things that we hated about our jobs.
Audrey Holst 49:01
Yeah, yeah, it just becomes more business as usual, but with just a different face on it.
Brooke Monaghan 49:07
Right. So. I don't know. I hope that we can have different kinds of conversations here, and probably we're gonna often miss the mark. That's fine too. We're gonna figure it out together, but at least there will be some nuance and fucking context.